Curse

heroajax1 · Apr 20, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Ok guys. I think i've finally decided what i'm going to do with my comp. I'd like some imput from peeps who know more than me and their various thoughts. I'll prolly not have a lot of specific questions here, but just be thinking out loud.

Here's my current configuration:

P4 3.2GHz
1Gb RAM
Dynex 5.1 PCI sound card
Linksys PCI network car for my cable modem, (no clue on the model)
Nvidia BFG 5200 256Mb AGP 8x vid card (yeah, it's old. shuup. )
400W PSU
Dual-Layer DVD Writer
CD RW
Windows XP Pro

Okay. So, I wanna upgrade my vid card for sure as my average frame rate for GW is like 15 (19 on a good day). I also have a new LCD monitor, but no DVI port in my current vid card to take advantage of that.

This is the one i've selected:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=H231-7166

Now, three things. 1. I have to have an AGP card for now because I'm not really interested in changing out my motherboard (which to me translates into might as well build a new comp). 2. To me, this is also a serious patch which should last me several (4) years or so, but there's a caveat to that with the release of Vista and DirectX10. 3. It appears that this card won't support DX10, which is fine since I don't have Vista and don't plan on getting it any time soon. If I choose to, I can do that any time as my cousin works for Microsoft.

From doing my research, it appears that essentially any AGP card won't support DX10. Therefore, if I want to do that, then I'll need Vista and therefore a new motherboard and a PCIe vid card. So, for now I'd like to get the fastest AGP card. There is one slightly better than this one in terms of pixel rate, but in reading reviews of it, it seems like it may have some heat problems whereas this one had no adverse comments on it at all. Besides, we're talking about a difference of 22 billion pixels/sec and 24.4 billion on the better card. At those speeds am I going to notice the difference? Unlikely.

This vid card also recommends a 450W PSU with a 12v rail. I believe that my current PSU has a 12v rail, just 50 less watts than recommended. I have 2 concerns here 1. how much power am really using? 2. Can I get this card without having to upgrade the PSU? I happen to catch this article on Guru which kinda concerned me as the guy "burned" out two vid cards due to low power.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...po wer+supply

This link was provided from the author/other contributers to calculate power requirements: http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp

Using this as my calculator I maxed out the power requirements of everything I could see and then put it to a more reasonable setting as well. On maxed out side, in which every single thing that can draw power does, the calculator came up with about 402W requirement @ 100% draw. Being reasonable, the requirements are more like 335-350W range. I would like to be safe and not blow out a new $300 vid card.

So, I'm figuring that I'll need to upgrade the power supply as well. This PSU happens to be on clearance: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...=ULT31848%20ON

I'm not committed to that unit, but it is on clearance after all and can serve as a discussion point.

The vid card has a PCIe power connector. Meaning that all my current 4-pin connectors won't work. I believe that the card has a 4 to 6-pin adapter in the unit so that shouldn't be a problem. NewEgg has them for like $2. The new (potentially) PSU has a 6-pin power cable designed for PCIe cards.

So, the questions are basically:

1. Do I really need to upgrade the power supply?
2. If I do upgrade the power supply (most have that PCIe power connector) can I simpy use that and not have to worry about the 4 to 6-pin adapter?

Thanks guys for thoughts. Don't kill each other over the discussion.

Mineria · Apr 20, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

HIS Radeon X1950 Pro is a good choice for AGPx8, only 1950XT performs better but costs slightly more as well.
The pro is prolly the best value for the money.

I'm running my system with a NorthQ NQ-4100BX (400W) without problems, for over a year now. System is Asus A8N-E, 4x SATA2, 1 DVD, Nividia 7600GT, Creative X-Fi (Fatality), 2x1GB+2x512MB ram.
If you go for one of the SLI certified PSU's you should be fine, they aren't to exspensive either, but may make a bit more noise.
Check Uncle Toms site to see if there is any test info upon your psu.
http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/coolers/index.html
Depends a bit on what you got, if it really gives you the 400W it should do fine.
If you got some none trademark psu or one of those that are pre-build into a case, you might better get a new one.

eggrolls · Apr 21, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by heroajax1

This vid card also recommends a 450W PSU with a 12v rail. I believe that my current PSU has a 12v rail, just 50 less watts than recommended.

Well, all PSUs come with a 12v rail. Question is, how many amps does the card need and how does that compare to yours? Low end PSUs don't supply enough current on the 12v rail to power the new card. The label on it should tell you. However, if yours is some no-name PSU with a weak rail, it's probably better to get a new one. If you do buy one, look for one that has high wattage, lots of amps on multiple +12v rails, both 4-pin and 8-pin connectors for the CPU, and two or more PCI-E connectors. Make sure you read about the PSU to make sure it's quiet, stable, etc., before buying it.

Loviatar · Apr 21, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heroajax1

So, the questions are basically:

1. Do I really need to upgrade the power supply?
2. If I do upgrade the power supply (most have that PCIe power connector) can I simpy use that and not have to worry about the 4 to 6-pin adapter?

Thanks guys for thoughts. Don't kill each other over the discussion.

hi.

one thing you need to take into account is the age of the power supply as well as the make and model of the power supply.

manufacturers who assemble them usually play the safety margin fairly tight as they do not expect anybody to upgrade parts.

power supplies do not get better with age.

if over 3 years consider that high quality power supply makers putting in better parts only have 2-3 year warranties.

adding extra demands to an old power supply is a bad idea.

instead of tiger you might check out Newegg.com which i have been using for several years and has always been in the top of RESELLER RATINGS.

http://www.newegg.com/

also check out reseller ratings on whichever company you decide to buy the card from.

EVGA (i am using a pair of factory overclocked 7900 GS in SLI) have a lifetime guarantee that covers everything except physical breaking while other guarantees are not nearly as secure. In SLI they are fast and quiet.

check out one day or other power supply name brand supplies and you will be surprised how cheap a very good power supply can be.

hope this gives you more choices

EDIT

on the adapter if the power supply has the 6 pin power cable you simply plug it in.

remember that the adapter needs not 1 but 2 4 pin cables (SEPARATE CABLES) witn nothing elde attached to them drawing power.

they have to be dedicated just to powering that 6 pin card connector

Lurid · Apr 21, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Do yourself a favor and avoid Ultra power supplies like the plague. Look into Enermax, Antec, Seasonic, OCZ, Corsair, XClio, and FSP. Wattage is not the deciding factor, amperage is. Look at the distribution of amps across the 12v rail(s).

heroajax1 · Apr 23, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Wow. Thanks guys for all your help. This has been awesome. I really appreciate it.

Your comments have posed some additional questions from further research.

The card I selected recommends a 450W power supply with 30amps.

Now, given your combined comments about power supply. I originally bought a barebones kit. So, I'll prolly need to get a new PSU. I'm 99.99% certain of that. Upon research it seems that virtually all of the power supplies I looked at are coming up somewhere between 18amps and 25amps on the +12v/+12v rails. No matter what the wattage rating of the PSU is. 400w-1000w doesn't matter much. Most also have multiple PCIe connectors (usually at least 2). So, I think I'm not understanding something, because it seems that the PSUs I researching aren't going to be able to power this card properly. That seems unlikely, so I suspect it's my understanding.

We'll use this one for purposes of discussion:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...440&CatId=1483

Now if you look at the power distribution it appears that 2 12v rails get 24amps of power. If I remember correctly, I'm only going to be plugging one connector into the card. Does that mean technically this power supply will be 6amps short of the recommended? Or since I'll only be plugging one of the 12v rails into the new card will that one be able to draw 48amps?

It would seem to me that any new PSU of 600w+ should be easily able to power this card, but that's not panning out in the research? I'm prolly wrong, so further education please?

Thanks again for all your help I really appreciate it.

StormLord · Apr 23, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

The card will not need 30 amps all by itself. That figure includes other 12V system components, in a "reasonable worst case" estimate. So, you will do fine with two 18-25A 12V rails, as long as you don't plug everything into the same rail. Probably best to use one rail for just the video card, and the other for everything else.

heroajax1 · Apr 27, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Thanks for all the help guys. New psu and vid card are on the way.